Orca slicer stringing. But when I increase the flow rate to increase the quality, the dimension is incorrect. Orca slicer stringing

 
 But when I increase the flow rate to increase the quality, the dimension is incorrectOrca slicer stringing  New features: Added functions for renaming, deleting G

Thank you for your detailed information I will try that in the next days and I also planned to use Orca Slicer for Calibration Tests. 7. Printed at 0. Both of these adjustments happened gradually, making sure there was no change in stringing between adjustments. There is no prompt from windows to for opening applications from the web. cfg file in clipper but in your slicer you also need to define when it happens. need to set to 1,3mm retraction to prevent retraction testtower stringing. Ich drucke mit dem Orca und habe mit dem gleichen Tower massives Stringing. The Ender 3 V2 still relies on a Bowden extruder system, so settings for TPU are more or less the same as those for the Ender 3, but with a few minor tweaks to retraction speed and distanceThe first layer options are under the Global Process Options (on the Preview tab, next to "Process" there is a slider to change from Global or Objects settings): Speed > First Layer Speed >Number of slow layers (first few layers can be printed slower) There are also first layer Accel and Jerk settings under the Speed tab. Updated May 22, 2023. 3 beta , when using retraction tower calibration in gcode file generated there is no "SET_RETRACTION " to change retraction length . M280 P0 S160; reset 3dtouch. 3. You will have to tune in the retraction and fan speed to suit your machine. I think it’s like 1. My notes and disclaimers on 3D printing. More granular controls. What is a bit concerning is the power draw which gets quite close to the 350W the power supply is able to deliver safely. The easiest way to do that is to calibrate your extrusion multiplier for each filament to account for differences between your slicer settings and real-world printer and filament specs. ago. Unofficial space for Orca Slicer users to discuss settings, features and tips. Updated Jun 30, 2023. Just dry your filament, every spool (even the new) is moist and it's 99% cause of stringing. Mit Orca Slicer wurde eine interessante Software vorgestellt, welche in den letzten Wochen positiv von der Community aufgenommen wurde. Closed. I recently tried out. - Environmentally friendly, Nylon based, 20% carbon fiber; - Printing smoothly, odorlessness, matte finish printing effect; - High Strength, High Rigidity, Good Toughness, Wear Resisting, Fitting to 3D print industrial parts;Arc overhangs is a method of laying filament into a pattern of blossoming concentric rings instead of stringing filament bridges over empty space (or over supports). I use orca slicer now. Describe the solution you'd like Orca is much much slower than Cura. Hey there, I try to print a wallet with my P1P and PETG (eSun in this Case). TPU printing is now quite clean, with very little stringing, and with good layer-to-layer adhesion. by Sam Rhodes, Tobias Hullette. Import the Ender 3 V2 Neo Profile from Creality Slicer into Cura Export in Creality Slicer Import in Cura. Generates a travel move from the end of the outer wall over the start of it and only then moves inside the wall, in. Switched to Orca Slicer, because I need to overextrude the first layer a bit and underextrude the last one. ", I would dry petg filament only if you have the strong feeling the moisture is a problem. 2mm is not uncommon and one of my bowden needs even 7mm. When the printer is ready to lay down more filament, it will replace the same 7 mm of filament in the hot end. Nothing else I have tried has fixed my stringing issues (still pretty new to the hobby) so I decided to give this a try. But the PETG keeps stringing alt… When I got my first Bambu I realized I had a huge filament handling issue that I knew I had, but did not think it was a big deal. 27th June 2023, 02:00 PDT. Cura 4. 6 KB. If you use Orca Slicer instead of Bambu Studio there is a Shrinkage setting in the filament profile that comes in quite handy for this problem. •. I am changing the nozzle diameter in the printer settings-> extruder section. Each configuration option can be used in all of your custom G-Codes and output filename template. Fighting fine stringing is one of the most frustrating problems to pin down, and our slicers provide numerous work-arounds to help us deal with this problem:How to Import the Creality CR-10 Smart Pro Profile from Creality Slicer into Cura. I use 230C hotend / 30-40C bed with Overture TPU. But many of us use Pursa Slicer for some prints. 4 mm nozzle. One of the best ways to mitigate oozing and stringing is to adjust Ender 3 retraction settings, which is easy to do using a slicer like Cura. 5mm, which basically eliminated stringing on subsequent prints. Heimdall July 17, 2023, 6:44pm 1. 6mm , Z length is . And I did figure out the Temp Tower in Cura with your help. Today I tried printing the Activated Carbon Filter Box & Lid from Printables. Cura retraction settings explained. Edit: I see that superslicer also has the same behavior, so maybe that's expected. Confident-Media-5713 • 17 days ago. 4 and 0. You will learn here what you have to pay attention to when using Cura Coasting. The speed is the previously good 45mm/s. 08, the standard 0. Ive raised the temp of the bed to 85 and lowered the temp of the nozzle to 185 to no avail. 2mm - 0. You also have the retraction length but I think you are wanting the travel distance ? /On orcaslicer 1. Set the retraction amounts in Klipper firmware. Print about half the speed of PLA to start. Fix My Print. The SV-06 is basically a clone under a different name. We wil look at how to fine tune the placement of your z seam with. . Constant-width extrusion _does_ make for essentially radiused corners, though, and that’s really noticeable with a 0. I do have rafts and Z hops enabled in Cura, as previous prints of this model were knocked off the base even after leveling the bed properly, and almost every time a "hop" is performed, some stringing occurs. The PETG from Bambu is available since last week. Try not to touch the surface on printing area with your fingers. It addresses some bugs identified in V1. It can vary from filament to filament as well. Printed the stringing test - perfect. Enter the IP, username and password just like you did for Putty, then click on Login. Stringing after switching to OrcaSlicer. The identifier of the respective placeholder is shown in a tooltip when you. When I use the OrcaSlicer to slice the 3D benchy model, and print it on my Voron2. TL;DR: way more stringing in Orca slicer then in Cura, while using the same retraction settings. Is this a setting in OrcaSlicer that I am missing? I love it otherwise, but if I can’t print good looking parts, it’s pretty useless to me. This is typically due to plastic oozing out of the nozzle while the extruder is moving to a new location. If the Combing mode is on, stringing may be. 85 drips more at high speeds/temps. 0. // temporary part filename to export from Alibre and import into Prusa Slicer string filename = @"d:/sandbox_alibre/" + part. At the moment i cant recommend orca slicer or softfever for traditional MMUs. All of the existing post processing scripts work exactly as they should, and are enabled in exactly the same way. Descubra o Orca Slicer, o fatiador que está conquistando o mundo da impressão 3D! Neste vídeo, compartilho minha experiência e mostro por que ele está se tor. You can go that route. Orca Slicer Reduce stringing in prints and use Modifiers to selectively modify portions of your part. 3mf project file exported from PrusaSlicer, I'll take a look and see if I can help. Cheers. Make sure you select the most appropriate flair for your post. ini. RC Aircraft Parts from PLA-LW. In the example below I changed the Pressure advance and Flow ratio values. Members Online. A bit of over extrusion can contribute to stringing. About the only reason I can think of to use Bambu Slicer instead of Orca Slicer is when BS has released some great new feature that you just can't wait for OS to pick up (which it will eventually). 5mm, which basically eliminated stringing on subsequent prints. Any guidance would be appreciated. New comments cannot be posted and votes cannot be cast. His name is T69C, and he was born. Follow the steps below to configure the plugin for your Klipper 3D printer, and experience remote 3D printing. Id recommend going through the orca slicer calibrations. That is almost twice the rated speed on the machine of 50mm/s. Sometime little loops are inserted at the ends of movements to avoid stringing outside the print, but if the plastic is still coming out of the nozzle when. The basic gist of the language is that it tells a tool. Using selected temps. Zurück zu Cura ist alles im grünen Bereich. Slice the STL files. The first layer should be printed with 0% cooling, 100% extrusion width and 100% layer height. Stringing after switching to orca slicer. Annnnd disaster. So, I am trying to match my speed settings between the two (no stringing in Creality). A blob formed at the nozzle. Of course, we also need to deal with our PRINT_START macro, usually found in printer. zip Retraction. cfg. PrusaSlicer ironing can yield smooth top surfaces on 3D prints. What do you know, I am in love with Hatchbox PETG these days :) can you describe what’s happening? I was having stringing issues on overhangs and it was the LACK of cooling in the chamber. PUT /api/slicing/(string: slicer)/profiles/(string: key) . The Ender 3 (V2/Pro/S1) printers are great at pushing filament, but stringing. 8-1. We dive a little deeper with some quick tips on Orca Slicer, a fork of Bambu Studios, by SoftFever. The problem is that. I set max flow of 11. TPU) you may set a filament override to reduce to the Lift Z. This bridge infill has double layer height and it causes distortion on material flow and, in consequence, surface lines. Retraction aktivieren. lock cannot find -lcereal - on gentoo site which you mention at cereal upgrade commit was link to prusa slicer commit. The only stats I have on the eSun ePA-CF is from their info: Characteristics:. PETG Stringing. Bambu Studio is based on PrusaSlicer by Prusa Research, which is from Slic3r by Alessandro Ranellucci and the RepRap community. The Killer Whale is the largest member of the dolphin family and they tend to be found in groups called pods, a group of related families. (All of these slicers work for the Pro, V2, and S1 variants, too)I have a stringing problem that creates this defect, I use the IBOSS pla. exe file. You can do this by setting your 3D slicing software to retract the filament while you are driving. I recently tried out orcaslicer, and I love a lot of features they have, that Cura doenst have or less accessible. Z-Hop can introduce fine stringing in your 3D prints. I went back to the default settings in Prusa Slicer. Switched to Orca Slicer, because I need to overextrude the first layer a bit and underextrude the last one. This video is brought to you by PCBWay, your one-stop-shop for PCB prot. From now on, we will focus on Cura settings. . Yes you have to have some version of an M600 in your . This has worked perfectly with no more screw ups. Using it will ensure that your Ender 3 follows the same procedure whenever the printing starts or ends, regardless of the slicer you're using. This type of stringing isn’t pretty. 2mm layer height, then use a 0. The model is PETG (the black is Hatchbox, and the white is a generic off Amazon). I'm going to install Prusa Slicer and try those same files and see what happens. Printed the stringing test - perfect. Those profiles usually work great and they’re very fast, but it’s not always possible to use them. Here you will find the standard profile for the Ender 6 in Cura: In Cura’s menu bar: Settings > Printer > Add Printer…. I find Cura's timing pretty accurate, as well as Orca's. I printed many of them to see if the temperature changes anything. + More; FILAMENTS. 5mm, 30mm/s speed, and only say 25% amount before wipe. On my machine it seems the slicer just does a straight up vertical Z lift prior to changing tools, which causes a long thin wisp of PLA/PETG to get blown about by the fan. TechDude23on May 6. Also have retraction on. It is perfectly fine if you do not add gcode_arcs to the Klipper configuration if you encounter any issues. r/klippers. As you can imagine, the stringing/nozzle build up/boogering causes varying degrees of trouble during the print. 6. Just try to find minimum where stringing is gone and reduce temp. Please update here if anyone find the profile to use Prusa slicer for Artisan. 2 layer. After you dried the filament start printing the ultrafast stringing test to verify if it’s still wet. If you can post a Zipped up . And I did figure out the Temp Tower in Cura with your help. Sharing some 0. Willkommen zu einem weiteren spannenden 3D-Druck-Abenteuer mit ORCA-Slicer! In diesem brandneuen Video dreht sich alles um die entscheidende Filamentkalibrie. Silk PLA is extremely prone to this due to its poor self-adhesion. Howdy! I'm still learning the ins and outs of my Prusa Mini+, and having a lot of fun with it. If you're using Orca Slicer, there's more advanced overhang settings including "detect overhang walls. dougl (Doug L) September 7, 2023, 1:45pm 1. That’s why all recommendations say things like "dry it for 10 hours at 70°C " or so. Descubra neste vídeo como eliminar as teias irritantes na impressão 3D! Com foco no ORCA. PETG Settings at a Glance. This comprehensive guide will help you achieve opt. I used to obsesses over stringing too when I first got into 3D printing. It is a function of the gcode to control the motion of the extruder, and that comes from the slicer. However, it is essential to use a lower fan speed (e. Orca Slicer, Bambu Lab PETG Basic profile, Textured PEI. They can be copied or exported and pasted into Cura. Your results are really good! My prints do look good aswell with PETG-CF it is just annoying that the nozzle always builds up that much filament and that it leads sometimes to failed prints when it gets too much. The line does not appear on the model and I notice this effect happening on all my prints where it goes from a flat surface to vertical. Type “combing” into the search box of the Print Settings menu. After that, you can close the window and adjust the print settings. The other thing is it could be moisture in the plastic. You can also do this after you have gone through some setting changes to test out their effect. (I've just recently switched from Cura) phischmi. I also recently started using Orca Slicer and reset all my parameters to try figuring this out again. • 6 mo. Dry out your filament and slow the outer perimeter way down to something ridiculously slow like 10 mm/s or less. This method gives the best layer bonding. This test is a 100mm stringing test which ran all the way from 0mm to 10mm length. First, we must make sure that the “enable retraction” box is activated, to access the retraction parameters. Well it was stringing a lot ^^". In the face of a real torture test challenge, I thought of a new way to handle Z hop. Descubra neste vídeo como eliminar as teias irritantes na impressão 3D! Com foco no ORCA Slicer, vou te. Increase avoid travel paths on advanced tab ins3d. 00 Y9. The benchy on the Cool Plate was way better, but not even near to PLA or ABS. 19RockinRiley69. I've already calibrated the extruder and flow but i can't find any setting to remove the massive stringing. Yes you have to have some version of an M600 in your . For instance, a common complaint regarding the Z-Hop feature is that it increases stringing, and while this will definitely be true in cases where the retraction settings aren’t configured correctly in the slicer, it’s not actually a fault of the Z-Hop feature itself, but rather Z-Hop being active making a bad situation worse. Retraction is a useful feature of FDM 3D printers that helps to prevent common issues like oozing and stringing. I use the Orca Slicer variant of Bambu's slicer because it offers finer-grained control over the slicing process and makes tuning and using tuned filament profiles much easier than Bambu's official slicer, which lacks good calibration routines for some of the most important variables in good printing: flow rate, pressure advance, and. Using this you will get gorgeous prints nearly off the bat so long as your machine is in good physical shape. For example, in Cura, it is Combing — moving to the next section not in a straight line, but over the already printed path. 48K subscribers in the BambuLab community. Not all slicers are created equal! Learn more about slicers for the Ender 3 (V2/Pro/S1/Neo) and find the best Ender 3 slicer for your needs. Select “Custom FFF printer”, name it “Sovol SV06” and press “Add”. basti. This will open automatically the first time you launch PrusaSlicer. Retraction Minimum Travel. USB-C Drive suggested. 0. 2mm standard, regular speed, textured PEI plate. The . Open your Slicer and set the layer height to 75% of your nozzle size. Bed temp 70 to 80, 1st layer 240-255, printing 230-255. Using Prusa Slicer: Temp: 200 start, 190 after first layer (tried 210 - 190) Bed: 45. @atrushing. Configure Slicer Settings We’re using PrusaSlicer for this guide, but you can use these steps with any other 3D printing slicer. . Layer height can be found under the Print Settings menu in PrusaSlicer, under 'Layers and perimeters'. Yes retraction values should be easily edited in slicer. I am not sure it makes a difference, but worth a try. Bambu Studio comes with a lot of pre-tuned filament profiles made for Bambu filament. Heimdall July 17, 2023, 6:44pm 1. The S1 prints fine with these setting and is now within about 3-5% of the speed of the MK2. failed-print. Depending on which PETG filament you are using, it may be necessary to set the cooling to 100% or reduce it slightly. It was previously known as BambuStudio-SoftFever. 17 Latest Firmware (5th October 2023) Sovol. Direct drive should be tested in increments of 0. It was previously known as BambuStudio-SoftFever. The flow rate indicates how much filament is extruded per time unit. In this video, I share 11 3D Printing Slicer settings that you never knew you needed. Which of these values is it using and how does it determine which to use. Selbst Anpassungen des Retracts, des Z-Hop und der Rückzugsgeschwindigkeit ändern nichts oder nur minimal etwas an dem stringing. Forgive me if this is not the place to ask. . 2mm - 0. 20230925_131613 1920×864 49. Either of these will work. Maybe adhesion issue. I have tried printing outer wall first, in-out-in/infill, infill-innerwall outer wall, and none. [1] This article discusses the various retraction settings available to Ender 3 users, suggesting ideal parameters for the popular Creality 3D printer. PETG has a higher melting point than PLA. You enter the weight of the full spool and aproximate remaining % (Default value 100). Nothing else I have tried has fixed my stringing issues (still pretty new to the hobby) so I decided to give this a try. but it’s extremely easy to remove with a lighter and 0,1 second heat. On 5/7/2023 at 9:03 AM, atrushing said: The slicer likes to assume and insert start temperatures unless you define something. . Orca Slicer . In such situations, setting the retraction length to 0. 7), PolyMaker Poly Terra Filament, FLSUN v400 printer, printing speed for supports (as chosen automatically by slicer) is about 147mm/s. This is simply because there’s more time for filament to ooze out of the hot end. I printed many of them to see if the temperature changes anything. cfg. After you've downloaded the file, you need to open it and run the orca-slicer. Getting more-or-less equivalent settings on the main stuff, Orca takes about 20% longer on my test print. too high and pla will move up until friction gets too high. If you want the best of both worlds, use Orca Slicer. Description. I just tweaked. " To find it, select the magnifying glass beside the layer-height menu and search for overhang. . Thankfully, there are several settings within Simplify3D that can help. After you dried the filament start printing the ultrafast stringing test to verify if it’s still wet. Fix My Print. stray_r. Magarotto. The black ran out during the test, so I finished the top in white. r/Ender3Pro. This is the only slicer I use now and it gives me almost 100 percent good prints. Orca Slicer. Share. Advertisement. OrcaSlicer is a fork of PrusaSlicer and is identical in most core functionality, but with a sleeker interface, and some other changes. From the main menu of your printer: Configuration → Advanced Settings → TMC Drivers → Sensorless Homing → Raise both X and Y values to 75 → Don't forget to save to EPROM. 3. for 365 days, only $2. I've saved it as part of the special TPU Printer profile. Cura Coasting Settings: Simply Explained. This way, we only have to set the data type (int, float, string, etc) and set any defaults once. application will not open due to a "fatal error, exception catched: Invalid String Position" To Reproduce I Have No Idea, which is helpful. Desktop (please complete the following information):Stringing or Oozing. Orca Slicer can connect to many different systems; you can see the complete list in the “Host Type” drop-down. r/Ender3Pro. There are pathfinding options that have the nozzle avoid crossing perimeters or travel over printed parts or move over overhangs, but honestly a zhop of 1mm should prevent the nozzle from hitting the print while traveling on its own. Use my modified “Fiberthree F3 CF-PRO” preset in Prusa Slicer or change it yourself using the data below from the. HorseL3gs97. This will unlock many more Prusa slicer features like cut, multi layer color and so on. . I found that the Z hop and retraction speed affected the stringing the most even after dropping temps 10C. Expected behaviour It to Open. 05. k77 May 6, 2023, 4:04pm 1. By Sophie Hardach Features correspondent. on Apr 1, 2022. And custom gcode for that start print in Orca slicer. . 3. Set the retraction amounts in Klipper firmware. The black is PETG and the white is PLA. You might need to add the following two lines to the 'Custom Start G-code' within Orca Slicer: M104 S0 ; Stops PS/SS from sending temp waits separately. Unofficial space for Orca Slicer users to discuss settings, features and tips. Even though stringing is mainly a result of incorrect retraction settings. Read on to learn more about. I sometimes need to increase the flow rate from the default 10% to 12% or even 15% for some filaments/surfaces (generally on larger surfaces with small layer heights). Now, you will see the printer connection pop-up. But the PETG keeps stringing alt… Yes, never think its dry out of the packaging…I have gotten burt thinking it was dry out of the bag, doesnt matter who makes the filament, invest in a dryer it will save you tons of aggravation. PrusaSlicer – A Versatile Slicer Tool. How to build Orca Slicer. Next, plug the SD card in your printer and turn it on. Now you have loaded the default profile for the Creality Ender 6. I use WinSCP. 0-RC2. by Gloria E. cfg. Their generous support enables me to purchase filaments and other essential 3D printing materials for the project. 3. 0. We wil look at how to fine tune the placement of your z. • 7 mo. cfg settings, fine tune Cura. I mean it's a very nice slicer and all, but what is the point if it's not saving me time when I'm printing? PS Quality from both slicers is equal in my case, so I can't confirm those debates, that "Orca's much better with output quality". Orca Slicer: Neuer Open Source Slicer für FDM-3D-Drucker. I just checked and Qidi 3D printers are supported as defaults in OrcaSlicer too. First of all, download Orca Slicer and run some calibrations for the material, temp tower, flow rate, preasure advance, then try again after you have dialed in the filament settings. Hoje vou te mostrar como instalar o fatiador Orca Slicer e como adicionar sua impressora 3D nele!Link para o Orca Slicer: Mingda Magician X is mainly used with Cura and the manufacturer recommends this slicer. . IMO color changes are height-related, not layer-related, so you should use the second method. After retraction, push the filament back. Not sure what’s up because Ive used this PLA before and had it work. smiles April 1, 2023, 1:21pm 22. Retraction – 2-3 mm at 20 mm/s, though don’t hesitate to drop quite close to zero if stringing is a real issue. I know everyone says to use Orca Slicer, but in my experience, Creality Print prints faster and with better quality with the same settings in both slicers. Bambu Lab P1 Series. Um Stringing bei PLA zu vermeiden sind diese Schritte notwendig: Nur trockenes PLA verwenden. retraction test in to I think that will fix the string #388. OrcaSlicer takes a great slicer and makes it even better with a few small changes. Fischer 3D. To close this gap and get the best out of your Ender 3 S1, you need the right settings for the Cura profile. I double checked on both slicer and Klipper and they are set for a 0. Materialise launches AI. TPU printing is now quite clean, with very little stringing, and with good layer-to-layer adhesion. TL;DR: way more stringing in Orca slicer then in Cura, while using the same retraction settings. For smaller surfaces it can happen when the filament flow ratio is a. sjm88 May 28, 2023, 4:32pm 12. SOLVED !! Move out of range: After Klipper upgrade #4217. 6. We'll walk through all of the calibration options currently available below including:. I know PETG is prone to stringing, boogering, overextruding & underextruding at varying speeds, among other issues. You’ll notice that the stringing between the 20 and 40mm gaps are much worse than the 10mm. 0_x64 (Added SV07 Plus) Sovol SV07 Plus Sovol SV07 Plus User Manual Sovol SV07 Plus USB Files SV07 Plus 1. The layer looks thin and under-extruded, and two common culprits are the bed height being too close ("oversquishing" the first layer which reduces flow rate and adhesion), and the e-stepper not feeding as much filament as the slicer's asking for (giving you thinner lines than the slicer expected, so they don't adhere to each other or the. 200c 0. a) 2. OrcaSlicer for KobraMax makes wonders! I recently started using OrcaSlicer for my Kobra Max. Cooling / fan settings tweaked. Setting up Prusa slicer with the ender5plus. Both of these adjustments happened gradually, making sure there was no change in stringing between adjustments. A lot of things can be done in either the slicer or firmware, its up to. 8. Do 3 interface layers and I believe 0. • 10 mo. The setting that you need to enable is called retraction, in this vide. Hoje vou te mostrar como instalar o fatiador Orca Slicer e como adicionar sua impressora 3D nele!Link para o Orca Slicer: thing for you to do is download Orca Slicer, and run the calibrations on the top menu bar. I use Prusa Slicer to slice and my printer can print it without layer shifting. So, I took the standard MK2 settings, made a copy, and labeled it as S1 (with MK2 settings). Improve this. i fixed this issue! prusa slicer stock settings with retraction changed to 1mm distance 60mm/s speed! stringing gone 😍 Reply. I would also run retraction and temperature calibration tests. I have some Inland Clear PETG that I've used quite a bit on an Ankermake (Cura slicer). I wonder if an earlier version of the slicer is choking on these files. In these notes, I’ll summarize simple steps to reduce stringing by calibrating slicer retraction settings. Use my modified “Fiberthree F3 CF-PRO” preset in Prusa Slicer or change it yourself using the data below from the. Coasting – Volume: 0. Hat jemand eine Idee an welchen Schrauben ich im Orca noch drehen könnte? Try going on the GitHub for the soft fever version and grab the one right before it becomes orca. First picture is Orca, second Cura. (I didn't touch the "initial layer travel speed" or the "small perimeters threshold" values) and then ran the orca slicer calibrations with the polymaker, adjusting as the calibrations show necessary. I own a prusa printer recently and decided to try out the P1P, however im looking on advice for slicer settings such as speed acceleration, etc. and set fan at 25%. Power users, being power users, tend to dislike this.